Which page am I on, and who's on it with me?

[klwilliams]

[Poll #1245602]

Comments

[lferion]

I picked #2, though I'm not sure I think that 'little' makes it sexist precisely. Derogatory, yes. I'll have to think more about this.

[galeni.livejournal.com]

such a phrase would never be said among equals. It establishes superiority.

[acanthusleaf.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I call my dog 'poor little thing' when she is being dramatic.

The thing is, the line between derogatory comments said by a man about a woman and sexist comments is very fine, but 'little' connotes youth, slight stature, and inexperience in such a way that I don't think I can come up with an example that I wouldn't find sexist.

A man in the workplace is *highly likely* to Not Get This.

[scotica.livejournal.com]

Except it is said among equals, routinely -- I can't quote you an exact example, but I would be astonished if I had never called one of my friends "poor little thing". I have definitely called them "poor thing". And they have done the same. The meaning depends on tone and context -- sometimes it is a bit sarcastic, but other times it expresses sincere sympathy.

Also, I'd amend my other reply to include the possibility of cultural differences -- "poor thing" was much more routinely used in a sincere sympathy manner by folks when I lived in Scotland.

[scotica.livejournal.com]

I put "other". It depends a great deal on exactly who the female and male co-worker are in relationship to each other and/or in relationship to others, and exactly the tone and manner the comment is made.

If, for example, the two co-workers are good friends and routinely joke with one another in a manner such that "the poor little thing" would just be part of that wider mutually satisfactory relationship, then it's not sexist or derogatory.

If, for example, the male co-worker would say "the poor little thing" about male co-workers as well as female, and in the same (non-derogatory -- see above) tone and manner, again, not sexist or derogatory.

On the other hand, if the co-workers are just your basic co-workers but not friends, and the male co-worker does not make such comments about other male co-workers, etc., then, yah, it's derogatory and sexist, and the "little" makes it much more clearly sexist in these circumstances.

[klwilliams.livejournal.com]

In this case, it's your last example. The tone was sincere, though. He wasn't *trying* to sound sexist and derogatory. He just Doesn't Get This.

[scotica.livejournal.com]

Sincere but clueless. That can be the hardest to deal with.

[eatenbyspiders.livejournal.com]

It's not sexist, just sarcastic and condescending, no matter who it's lobbed at.

[maryosmanski.livejournal.com]

I don't work in corporate America; I work in a public school.

I wouldn't even use "poor thing," much less "poor little thing" about one of my students. And I certainly wouldn't use it about a fellow teacher, an administrator, or a staff member (such as teacher's aide, secretary, maintenance staff). It's the sort of phrase I would use to describe a sick pet.

Perhaps it's just the early hour back here, but I'm also not sure exactly how to interpret "out sick." Where I work, that term is used for anyone, including students, who are absent for as little as one day due to something not considered a serious illness (let's say, a head cold or an upset stomach).

[klwilliams.livejournal.com]

Yes, that's what I mean about "out sick" -- out for a day due to illness.

[xrian.livejournal.com]

If they're not friends, then "poor thing" is probably okay -- but not "little." Friends generally have a license to benevolently insult and demean each other with impunity, since both people know it doesn't reflect the opinion it sounds like. But without that two-way buy-in, it's not okay.

Admittedly it also depends on the local culture. In my workplace, however little I get along with some of my cow-orkers, the general atmosphere is warm and supportive, and I can see someone saying that without anyone else feeling insulted. However my workplace is also overwhlemingly women.....

[klwilliams.livejournal.com]

I do think he was trying to be warm and supportive, it's just that he really tends to go overboard.

I bet I know who you're talking about

[etaine-pommier.livejournal.com]

"Little" is inappropriate - about any co-worker (unless your co-worker happens to be a child.) I know that "Poor thing" is inappropriate, too, but I also know I use that phrase (for both men and women,) so I'm hesitant to judge it as sexist.

[loup_noir]

Man, if that constitutes sexist these days, then things have changed so much for the better. I remember bosses routinely referring to professional women as "girls." Oh, and let's not forget the dreaded interview question: do you have children, or are you planning to have a baby soon? And the ever-popular: Are you married? Oh, oh! And: He has a family to support, so he needs more money.

[j-i-m-r.livejournal.com]

Those questions are now illegal in an interview. Progress, slowly, but progress.

[loup_noir]

Yeah, now they're illegal, but they were considered "standard questions" back in the early eighties.

Since I'm no longer in an office (thank God), I haven't had a chance to keep up with what's considered sexist. If we're down to "poor little thing," then hurrah! That's so much better than the crap I recall from the eighties and even the early nineties.

"Girl"

[scotica.livejournal.com]

One of the somewhat unsettling things to observe while watching the Olympics has been how frequently the various women athletes get called "girls" (and not just the ones who are mainly teenagers), by both commentators and the athletes themselves. I found it particularly depressing when one of the members of the gold medal winning women's (rowing) eight used "girl" -- perhaps because last time the US women's eight won gold, my coach Holly Metcalf was on the team and, good Mount Holyoke woman that she is, would not have done so...

Re: "Girl"

[klwilliams.livejournal.com]

Oddly enough, I agree with you on this.

[larryhammer]

Derogatory, yes; possibly but not necessarily also sexist. Imagine, for example, it being said accompanied by the littlest violin in the world, playing just for her.

---L.

[acanthusleaf.livejournal.com]

Folks, she made it clear that this was not a sarcastic comment or a joke. In her example, the man is concerned for his coworker, and uses this phrase to convey that.

Taken out of context in a theoretical way, it might not be specifically sexist, but men do not say this phrase about *male* coworkers in a sincere manner. Can anyone really picture a straight male in a professional situation saying, "poor little thing" about a male colleague (even one he doesn't respect) and meaning it sympathetically?

[scotica.livejournal.com]

In the original question there is a lot of ambiguity about the relationship between the co-workers -- "co-worker" can have such a wide variety of relationships. But yes, the context has been made clear now, in comments (which not everyone reads through before commenting themselves).

In any case, I can actually picture a straight male in a professional situation saying "poor thing" about a male colleague and meaning it sympathetically. I can even more easily imagine a woman in a professional situation saying "poor thing" about a male colleague and meaning it sympathetically. However, I picture this with a non-American cultural component (e.g., the speaker is either Scottish or Scottish-influenced).

"Little", however, I can't really picture outside of the co-workers being friends and having a relationship where it would not be out of place.

[klwilliams.livejournal.com]

I was trying to be somewhat vague in the original question so as to get as unbiased a response as possible.

[vincam.livejournal.com]

"Poor thing" is inappropriate. Not just as sexist but also as plain derogutory. If a man said that about another man, it would be a put-down. So, if one assumes there is no sexism, then one interprets the comment as a snarky put-down. Depending on whether the speaker really meant to express sympathy, it's either sexist or derogutory. In either case, it's inappropriate for the workplace.

[klwilliams.livejournal.com]

He keeps trying to mean well, but ends up talking about his female co-workers like they're children.

[greatsword.livejournal.com]

Where I grew up, "poor little thing" was used for children, and usually for children that were making much of something very minor.

On it's own, I'd say derogatory. As a pattern of treating female coworkers like children, it comes across as sexist.

[vincam.livejournal.com]

Is he an older guy? Like, over sixty? I sometimes cut them some slack because they often don't realize the habitual speech patterns are derogutory and demeaning. What I do when old guys say stupid stuff like that is to point out to them that their comments will be taken in a spirit different from what is meant. Sometimes they get it, sometimes they don't.

Younger guys, on the other hand, should know better, and often do. Anyone under sixty who treats women as if they were children is simply being demeaning in a sexist manner. There's no excuse any more. I'd treat such a man as if he had intentionally insulted the woman. I jump on them with all four feet.

A couple of days ago, in fact, I ran into a sales guy at Radio Shack who walked away from me while I was talking to him, to go help a man who had just walked in. The other sales guy was on the phone, so I was left to find my batteries by myself. When Salesguy #1 finished with the other customer and came to ask me if I needed help (I'd found the batteries and was now searching through them for the one I needed), I told him thankyouno, I would do it myself. When Salesguy #2 got off the phone and came to help, I let him. The transaction was accomplished with no further fuss, and both salesguys understood that I was unimpressed with how I was treated. I hope Salesguy #1 got a good lecture after I left.

[klwilliams.livejournal.com]

He's not in his sixties, but he hasn't worked in this kind of environment very much before.

[scotica.livejournal.com]

Is he originally from the US?

And what is the sort of environment he hasn't worked in very much before? (My first thought is one with professional females ;-)

[klwilliams.livejournal.com]

He hasn't worked in a corporate environment, or even one with other people.

[vincam.livejournal.com]

IMHO, that's not really an excuse. Unless he's real close to sixty, or he's lived in a cave for the past forty years, he should know better.

[darcyjavanne.livejournal.com]

"Poor thing" is - insulting. You'd say it about a baby, perhaps, or a pet. The appropriate response is "I'm sorry to hear that" or "I hope she gets better soon" or something along those lines.

[bdenz.livejournal.com]

I'm nobody's "poor" "little" anything and would not say it about anyone else. I'd pick "other" -- poor little thing is for animals, not people.

[sci-o-biscuits.livejournal.com]

On the positive side, at least the co-worker didn't tell the boss, "Out sick? Yeah, right. That's the fifth time she's pretended to be sick this month!"